Lending to SMEs in the Digital Age with Mantvydas Stareika of CapitalBox

Are you interested in understanding the growth journey of SMEs? In this episode of PayPod, host Jacob Hollabaugh sits down with Mantvydas Stareika of CapitalBox to discuss How Fintechs Provide Solutions for Small Companies. CapitalBox provides timely, trusted, and tailored alternative funding solutions to businesses that form the backbone of the European innovation economy. Watch this episode for a fun and interesting dive into this latest development in payments and fintech.

Payments & Fintech Insights In This Episode

Today’s Guest

Mantvydas Stareika : CapitalBox

As a leading European fintech lender for small- and medium-sized enterprises, CapitalBox provides timely, trusted, and tailored alternative funding solutions to businesses that form the backbone of the European innovation economy. Founded in 2015 as part of Multitude Group’s growth platform, their pure fintech provides fully automated online business loans up to €2 million that can be delivered in minutes following a successful application. CapitalBox’s unique business risk assessment methodology, ability to deliver capital quickly, and emphasis on personalized service make financing newly feasible for underserved businesses across the continent. Headquartered in Finland, they have offices in Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Lithuania, with plans to expand into more countries in the near future.

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About PayPod

PayPod is the leading voice in the payments and fintech industry, covering payments, risk management and new technology. Host Jacob Hollabaugh interviews leaders who are shaping the payments and fintech world, as they discuss the latest developments in the payments and fintech industry.

Episode Transcript

Jacob: Welcome to PayPod. The Payments Industry Podcast. Each week we’ll bring you in depth conversations with leaders who are shaping the payments and fintech world from payment processing to risk management and from new technology to entirely new payment types. If you want to know what’s happening in the world of fintech and payments, you’re in the right place. Hello, everyone. Welcome to PayPod. I’m your host, Jacob Hollabaugh. And today on the show, we are diving into the world of lending and specifically talking about lending as it relates to the backbone of most any economy, the small and medium sized businesses. And as longtime listeners know, I myself am a small business owner. My wife is the same. We have greatly benefited in the past from the right loan at the right time. So if you notice a little extra appreciation in my voice when discussing how to better serve, you know, the quote unquote little guys, that is probably why. So join me to dive into this world of lending is Mantvydas Stareika, CEO of CapitalBox, the company providing SMEs across Europe with fast and easy working capital, helping them to grow their businesses and improve their communities. Mantvydas Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here.

Mantvydas: Thanks for having me. Hello, Jacob.

Jacob: Yes, the pleasure is mine. I’m very excited. As you know, I say in that opening, I’m very appreciative of companies like yourself who take the initiative to help the quote unquote, kind of smaller guys and gals out there doing things. It’s not always about the big, big enterprises, the massive companies, although sometimes on this podcast it is. But, you know, it’s about everyone. So before we totally, totally dive in, let’s get a little bit of an overview of CapitalBox. What is CapitalBox? Who is CapitalBox? Who are you working with? What types of services are you offering?

Mantvydas: Of course, usually I try to to be, you know, shorten this presentation because I think it’s not the most important to know about us, but you to know what we are doing. But the market is being being developed now and so on. But in very short, the CapitalBox is Scandinavian fintech organization, fintech company who belongs to the larger group of the multitude, who is also a fintech company. But working with the consumers, they are much larger. They have 400,000 customers across Europe, 18 countries, 400 million portfolio, so quite a large one, but they’re working also like 18 years already in the market. Stocks exchange company having 700 people inside and so on. But I’m very, very happy that like six years ago our owner decided that not only the consumers needs to get a proper access to the financing, but also the SMEs, who is in some aspects looking very close to the consumers basically, because usually, as you mentioned, it’s also like one man show or, you know, couple man show in the in the company. So they’re just for the tax reasons, they are opening the company not working as the individual. So so CapitalBox is a short history yet six years but we already try it nine countries we try to to offer the funding for the micro companies, especially the micro companies. Now currently we are going to the more to the SMEs, but in the beginning it was really micro companies.

Mantvydas: You know, Jacob our average loan just in the beginning of the year was about €18,000 per per customer. So it’s, you know, it’s really small one starting from €5,000. So as mentioned, we we tried nine countries currently after the Covid. We stayed with the five ones. So we have the biggest one, the our initial country, Finland and Sweden. We have Denmark, Netherlands and Lithuania currently. However, we had to close not not saying that we are not going backwards there, but we had to close the UK, Czech Republic, Poland and Australia because of the, you know, the risk situation and due to the fact that we were, I would say, not ready to go to those markets, but it really was a lot of experience, you know, looking at the market. So in very short amount we are really a micro SME lender granting from 5000 to €350,000 loans for the small companies. What is different about us is that we don’t take any collateral, yet we are lending basically on personal guarantees. So no securities for for our loans. And I would say that the specific is also that we are doing most of the job digitally, basically online. We really have despite that, we have 6000 customers currently as SMEs. We really have very short personal like a staff, you know, count. So we do a lot of digital approach and everything, but we will speak about this, think later.

Jacob: Yeah, love it. Could you define for me so and for those stateside audience members listening when we say SMEs, we you know, here in the States we might say SMB, small, medium business or small medium enterprise, but interchangeable. Can you kind of give me what the definition size wise is of like that micro versus the small or the medium? What defines where they fall kind of within that? And then also, you know, you mentioned you’re working with 6000. What is the market size in? Total of how many SMEs there are across the EU.

Mantvydas: Yeah. So basically, you know, it’s a different kind of how everyone is calculating the SMEs, as you correctly mentioned, because usually, you know, it differs. Rather Do we calculate a freelancer as a company already because we have some sort of have like a status between the company or the individual. So it really depends how you calculate it. But in average, everyone is more or less calculating about 25 million SMEs in Europe currently, and it’s really growing quite fast. Now I would say that the biggest change was due to the Covid because of the digitalization in Europe and the rest of the world that it was much easier to open the company, much easier, you know, to apply for loans, to open the websites and so on, so to go to offer your services online. So I think that this was a really big change when I was digging for my couple of interviews before, I was looking at, you know, a lot of data. And what was interesting that during the Covid, basically all the world is advanced about seven years ahead on the digitalization level. So it means that currently what we’re looking also in the SMEs and the online services basically is what we would be only seeing after seven years of today. You know, so I think that this was the maybe some sort of like a jump a couple of years ago also for the SMEs. And a couple of main reasons for this was of course, the Covid.

Mantvydas: But but then of course, the the access to financing was one of the you know, there was a lot of money being poured onto the market markets. You know, a lot of governments, they said we need to support the small companies, we need to support the consumers. So they put a lot of money. And then, you know, when there was a capacity on the market, everyone was looking for how to how to put it on the market, how to offer it easily, because you cannot at that time come to the, you know, to the bank or to the office of a company to take the money. So you had to do it online. That was one. The other thing was and still is, is the like digitalization of the information, the access to information, basically, you know, the PS2, PS3, you know, coming up. So basically, this was also very important because a lot of fintech companies, same as ours, basically were, you know, basing our decisions mainly on the financials, on the information available to us. And previously before the Covid, it was really difficult in some markets to get this information. You know, in some markets like in Poland, for example, you had to go to the to the court and look at the information for the couple of years up to date in order to know whether you can give a loan to this company. So you can imagine, you know, how long it would take for a company to evaluate someone’s, you know, to go to the court to scan the documents and so on and so on.

Mantvydas: So it’s now a bit different. Most of the Europe is currently online. Most of the Europe you can get the data from the existing financial companies, the banks, you know, psd2 account information. And I think that also the the product is changing due to this. So a lot of products are being adopted that you can, you know, base your opinion on the, you know, on the history of payments of the SMEs. So so this is the change, I think in the environment. The SMEs will still grow both in the in the way of the geographical and, you know, on other ways. And that’s why find this area very interesting. Coming a bit very shortly to your question about micro and the bigger SMEs. So it’s really hard to to separate those. But I would say that the micro companies is those who are having like, you know, one employee up to €100,000 turnover yearly. This is really a micro. So for one person, one man show, as I mentioned, you know, who is basically just getting his salary from the job he loves not to working for someone, but doing it for himself. But we really see like I’m personally also see it every day that a lot of those one man shows, they are very eager, very entrepreneurial, they’re very eager to grow for the bigger company to reach, you know, €10 million is the second stage, I would say, for the SMEs when you are getting okay, this is the third, maybe the second is up to 1 million.

Mantvydas: So when you are getting to 1 million turnover per year, you’re reaching like stage number one. And then the second one is €10 million because it’s really changes then, you know, it’s like with the kids, I personally have three kids, so when you have two and three, it’s a very different situation, you know, So, so that’s the same here. So when you’re reaching 1 million, then you start to to hire new people, you need, you know, the accountant. Maybe the salespeople, you know, in the in your company. But when you’re reaching €10 million, you need some personnel already in the in the company. Depends on the business. Of course, if you are just a trader on the, you know, on the marketplaces like Amazon, maybe it’s enough for you to to play alone. But after 10 million, I would say that even if you are just a trader, you will require some, you know, additional people to take care of your warehouses, to take care of your goods and so on. Basically up to €100 million. I would say that it’s very similar because then you have a mechanism, you have already a personnel working for you. It’s just it requires maybe some additional effort.

Jacob: Certainly yeah. And I would be as interesting as you laid that out. I know, you know, different people will have their different definitions that are very similar, but the ones you laid out, I was thinking in my own personal life of I am someone who, you know, the small business I reference is a one man shop. It is just me. And so I’m definitely in that micro where it’s like, yeah, six figure revenue or whatever is certainly possible. But to then take the jump from that to a seven figure would likely involve it, not just me. I would need to actually build a little bit of a team and then from, you know, if you want to go from 7 to 8, it’s not just a little team, it’s a bigger team and just that kind of expansion of a business. And it was very fascinating to hear you put a number to how far we jumped during the pandemic because the pandemic did. And it’s obviously a very common topic on this podcast and anywhere within the world, if not, you know, just financial world, kind of made everyone catch up and get ahead of where things were already going. We were already moving towards all everything being digital. Some were not moving as fast as others towards that. And then we had an event happen that said the only way things can operate for a little bit here is purely digital. So if you weren’t doing it already, get on board. And it’s fascinating to hear like you put the number of seven years is like the jump we kind of made and trying to think of were we seven years behind or did we jump seven years in forward or was that a little, you know, kind of in the middle there somewhere? So fascinating stuff. Certainly. The other thing on like your site and with CapitalBox, it says, you know, you’re serving the financially underserved. Can you kind of define what exactly that means or how these SMEs are currently being underserved in some way? What’s kind of the definition there?

Mantvydas: Yeah, I think that the gap is really shrinking, I would say, because more and more, you know, those even regulators and regular banks, they’re looking at it to me because it’s a huge industry. You know, it’s like 85% of the companies in number in Europe is SMEs, basically. So basically, if you’re if you’re saying that you’re not working with SMEs, so you’re focusing only on 25, of course, when you’re looking from the volume side. So it’s a bit different. Of course the SMEs is not, but from, from the, you know, from the numbers, it’s really like an important part creating a lot of work in the Europe. So basically the underserved is still SMEs because it’s complicated from the administrative burden to work with them. You know, we previously got used to that. The funding is coming from the regular regulated banks with the old institutions where they they need to comply. You know, for a lot of regulations. I was myself working. I actually created a bank a couple of years ago with a licensed in Europe. And I really know, you know, how it how you suffer to to look at those regulations and to comply with them, you know, all those I’m not even speaking about the AML compliance and other regulations, but also on the capital adequacy, on the concentration on everything.

Mantvydas: I mean, like ten of thousands regulatory lines where you have to comply. And this is not helping, you know, when you need to understand one business and how you can help those small companies because then you need to do it really manually or you have to develop a system when you need to invest a lot of money, you have to have to have a lot of personnel in order to to work with that. So that’s why I’m happy that the fintechs, because they’re also regulators that we are also complying to a couple of, you know, on the regulations where we are working, but they are not so strict. That’s one. And then the second, you know, we can easily distribute the funding more easily, let’s say distributed funding for for for the SMEs. So that’s why the companies like Capital Works, other companies, they really can help more to those micro and small companies because you can create, you know, the algorithms more easily inside the how we are working currently. We have, as I mentioned, 60 people in five countries. We’re currently working. So 60 people is basically working with 6000 customers. But I would say that we can grow like double of the capacity so we can, with the same personnel, we can grow to 12,000 customers currently.

Mantvydas: And basically. Be and nothing will change because most of our basically work we do is related to the digital approach. So we received the financials online. The system is basically taking the financials and they’re doing the first level of rejection and approval for the customers in all of the countries. Then, for example, we developed in Finland an algorithm that up to €50,000, we are granting the loans automatically also by the system. So no person is being involved in this. So someone is applying online to us and then the algorithm says, you know, gathering the information and according to the date, the the data. So basically machine learning. So giving the answer for the customer in a couple of minutes because, you know, it’s basically, you know, data who you’re analyzing and then giving the answer to the customer because of this solutions of these solutions, we can really go to the small companies and really help them for their initial round in life, basically. So to get the first loans by working like six months, maybe only in the in the market, you know, by willing to grow for the for the bigger company.

Jacob: What kind of like accuracy do you see because my my thought would be some people’s you know, initial reaction and this has certainly come up with some different people we’ve talked to in the kind of security space around different things like lending is, you know, the first from the consumer standpoint, your first reaction is we’re going to let the computer or some algorithm decide who gets money, who doesn’t. But then my usual response is and we’ve had responses from others say like, the companies wouldn’t do that if it wasn’t better. Like if the humans were way, way better at it, then, you know, they would probably stick with that even though it’s less efficient. But if they were way better. So what do you see from like an accuracy standpoint or, you know, having just kind of the security side of that in general of you’re taking the person out of it and you’re going just off the data set that you can get in and make these quick decisions. Are you finding that you’re able to do it actually in a better way or a way where you’re approving the right people even more of the time than you would have been or other companies would have been traditionally going through the longer human based process?

Mantvydas: It’s a very good question, actually. The question which we are seeing every day and we’re discussing with my team every day. So I would I would answer in a couple of aspects. So first, you are completely right that I still think that like a right person, experienced person really takes the better decision every time compared to the computer, you know, compared to the machine learning and mean experience because he really can go and look. And this is especially for the company, for B2B business. I know since we have a group company who is working for the consumers, this is totally, you know, automatic because basically there is there is very a lot of similarities between the people on their financials. Either they are getting the salary, you know, or they don’t get the salary. Either they are paying for their loans or they’re not paying loans. With the companies, it’s more much more difficult. So that’s why I would say that after our experience, what we saw and after working, you know, those six years with the with the B2B, I would say that up to a certain amount, it really looks it works the the machine learning and the automation, you know, no, no person person involved up to a certain amount because usually it’s automatic.

Mantvydas: There is a lot of applications are getting in one country about 300 applications per week, which is quite a huge amount. You know, so so then imagine how many people would need to sit in one country in order to, you know, to review all those. I would say it’s impossible. So up to certain amount, it’s really works with the machine learning because it’s really an algorithm. You know, there’s a company coming up, we are looking at the financials if there is no no debt. So very similar to consumers, no depth, constant income and so on and so on, ending, you know, 20, €15,000 to those. But with the bigger amounts, you really need to go deeper so you can put in what we did. You can put the algorithm in place till for the first rejections or first approvals to be done and then the person usually takes over, you know, then looks at the real assets, looks at the equity, what’s the business, what’s the seasonality of the business and so on and so on. Then comparison with other businesses and then, you know, then then request additional information from the customer in order to take the final decision.

Mantvydas: So we really separate between the, the amount of funds of the money we have to lend in order. Rather, we involve the person from our side or we don’t involve. And then the third stage, I would say it’s when it relates already with the bigger amount. So starting from €100,000 and up up to €2 million, what we are doing, and especially when the collateral or the pledge or something is being involved, then you need to evaluate the pledge to collateral. Because for example, when you’re taking an apartment for a land plot, you know, as a collateral, it really differs. The computer doesn’t recognize, you know, if the land plot is is across, you know, of the construction industrial area where like a marketplace next next to it or there is, you know, as a funeral station or something like across the street of this of this building. So it’s completely different. You know, you can evaluate still the business, the building or the apartment, but you cannot evaluate the liquidity, for example, of this apartment or this land plot. So it really involves then the person, you know, who needs to look deeper. And that’s what we do and think that it’s the right, right job we’re doing here.

Jacob: Yeah, it certainly makes sense. And having that kind of blend and it would make sense, you know, the smaller the amount you’re giving out, there’s a little there’s less risk in that inherently. And so having a little easier of access and then the higher you get, still bringing in while the machines inevitably get better and better and better and maybe someday it will be able to evaluate that land plot in a way equal to or even better than the human counterpart. But it makes sense and sounds like a proper mixture, as it kind of, in my mind, probably should be. Still at this point.

Mantvydas: I would say that basically it depends on the information level. We will see, as mentioned, you know, after the Covid, you know, the started or just before the Covid started, this information availability era where you can access a lot of information, then it depends. Now also what will be the next step, you know, if we will be accessing additional data. So of course, then the algorithms will also be, you know, upgraded to the next level. So and I think that this will happen, but we are seeing currently that information is being more and more accessed. You can access now more of the information for your personal use view you were able to access like ten years ago. So that’s the same in the financial world. Like every day we are accessing more information and this will help us to to ease the automation of our processes.

Jacob: Earlier in the conversation, you mentioned you’re currently in five countries, but you had to close down a few countries. And it was it’s one of the things I always love talking to folks working throughout the EU because it’s such a it’s different and also the same as it is here in the States where I’m located, where in the States it’s kind of similar how we work with all the different each individual states kind of has some of their own laws, but mostly we’re working with the federal laws, whereas in the EU, you know, a little bit smaller geography and market size wise of each country that definitely has their own different laws, their own unique characteristics, cultures, everything across the board. So I’m interested to know what you maybe learned from having entered countries, you know, as you said, like maybe before you were actually ready to and then having this other out of control global event that also made it even harder on top of that. But what the process kind of is like of entering a new market, entering a new country and anything you might have learned, having entered a few that you’ve had to recede from for the time being.

Mantvydas: Good question. I would say that Europe is, you know, despite that, there’s different countries in Europe, but there is a lot of similarities. And that at the same time a lot of differences between the countries. That’s the separation of the Europe, because I would say that the first difference is that between the countries, we requires the license to work for the as a financial company and then non licensed countries. So for sure, this non licensed countries has more competition in the country because it’s easier to enter. You know, the entrance barrier is much smaller for those non-licensed countries. And at the same time, you know, then of course a lot of more players working in this country, good and bad things which which we can take a separate topic. But then the second is of course, the license countries when you need to apply for certain license. And then there is a lot of regulations working in those countries, making less competition in the country, usually the not beneficial for the for the companies there, but more, let’s say, more regulated and then like more control market gives the more certainty in the market for the for the companies then they know if they’re applying usually for the loan they’re getting from the certified provider certified financial in this industry player. For them, it’s more certain that the partner which they’re working with will be reliable.

Mantvydas: So, you know, this is plus and minus pros and cons everywhere. But then at the same time, I would say that the second thing in Europe is that it’s really differs from the cultural aspect. So, for example, I never been in states as from my corporate life, but I think that from the cultural aspect is much similar to each other, the states compared to Europe, because in Europe there are some countries which just you need just to change your mind when you’re going to those countries. You know, where where I’m based in Vilnius. I’m in Lithuania. I’m in Baltics. You know, here we are basically very small countries, you know, post-Soviet union countries and we are we have quite small competition. Well, it’s growing now, but it’s still very small competition between the financial industry. But when you go to the such markets, like Netherlands, for example, there is like, you know, thousands of financial players work in the country and making already some cultural changes. How the how people, how companies, they are taking the loans, how they’re working with the financial institutions and so on. And of course, some deeper even into this. For example, in Netherlands, it is actually basically almost set in law that if the regulated normal bank is not able to provide a loan to the company, they have to provide, let’s say the how they call they call it as a second yes answer.

Mantvydas: So making that they are providing a financial institution who will give them a loan despite that, they as a bank, they didn’t give them a loan. So they are saying, okay, this is the list like 3 or 4 companies who will for sure give you a loan because they are not regulated. They are not so strict. So so you can go in and take it while vice versa. For example, in Finland you are not able or you are not, you are actually even forbidden to do this to provide because this is being taken as a competency that that you said no to the customer. That means that it’s something bad with the customer. So they are not able to get get the loan. So you cannot provide who can give you the loan because you already gave the negative answer. And this is like being called as a normal in the market. So this small example, you know, but this is like a separation of 1000km between the Netherlands and Finland, you know, and then it’s completely different market. I would say that that’s Europe’s that’s the diversity that’s regulated and regulated cultural changes, historical competition in the markets. This is very, very different, different markets.

Jacob: Yeah, that’s fascinating to think of in that example you gave is like, yeah, it’s just a completely different two completely different approaches to where the trust lies with the company or the consumer and just kind of how you’re viewing the consumer and is wild to think just across one little border there that it’s, you know, a completely, completely different response. If you can’t do it, you have to tell them who could or if you can’t do it, don’t refer them to anyone because that means no one should be doing it. And it’s very different views. But it’s a it’s a lot to balance on your end. And everyone who’s trying to work across all of the and across all all the different countries there in Europe. The last topic I kind of want to pivot to is just some kind of business philosophy or personal development, personal philosophies. A couple questions on this for you. The first one being you’re obviously thinking about working with SMEs all the time, and I’m sure you see plenty that are, you know, successful and some that maybe aren’t as successful in the growth that they’re hoping to get when, you know, having this money sent to them or anything. Are there any characteristics that stand out to you about how the successful SMEs do business, how they operate, anything when you are seeing not when you’re actually lending them the money, but having interacted with so many and thinking about them, anything that stands out of when you see, Hey, that company is going to be successful because they do this or they have this type of mindset. Any standout characteristics for you?

Mantvydas: Yeah, sure. I mean, I’m actually every day in the credit committee when we are deciding for the bigger loans from one €100,000. So we’re getting all the decision makers and basically reviewing like very deeply the company. And of course afterwards we are, you know, monitoring whether they’re paying on time and so on. So then then you see this learning curve basically. Did you did you make a good decision or not? But I would say there’s a lot of differences. Of course, that first is the sector where the company is working. You know, it could be like a very old sector, like a construction companies or transportation companies. You know, there was like a long history for those companies and they really in the risky business, let’s say there is a lot of companies does a good job. But then at the same time, there is a lot of bankruptcies in those sectors. That’s why there is a lot of, you know, financial institutions who are actually not even working with those sectors, because I would say that I don’t know the statistics now by my mind, but I would say that the biggest amount of bankruptcies in Europe is currently in the construction sector and usually in transportation is the second sector here.

Mantvydas: So I would say that most of the SMEs is in those sectors because it’s easy to enter and a lot of businesses still can do that. So I would say that’s starting from the sector is one. Then the second is basically that if it is a trendy sector like for example, that was with the solar energy a couple of years ago and especially in Europe, you know, a lot of SMEs like, you know, companies, they started to to do this solar energy panels for the homes and everything. And this was really trending until it reached some sort of amount. So the companies were still entering, but there was not. So let’s say the demand was not growing. So there was a lot of companies who went down who bankrupted because they were not able to find the the customers in the in the market. So that’s the second. I would say choice is the trend. Is it trending with a really short trend or this is a long trend like a long term trend. So this is the second one to separate. And then I would say that the third is, of course, it depends on the person who are in the company.

Mantvydas: That’s I would say that maybe that’s even the biggest one. It’s hardest to check. But then you see from the history, because we know from the history whether this person who is managing the small company had some previous experiences with the with the companies. How was it? Is it still running, Was it bankrupt and so on and so on. So this is really like an experience how how they manage their companies, what they’re doing, how does it separate from from other companies, you know, how they’re working. Do they involve some new technologies in place? Do they invest in their companies? Do they take a lot of money out out of the company? I mean, do they pay the dividends to themselves every year or they invest in the company? This also shows if the person involved with the company is really eager to grow with the company or he is just, you know, paying himself a salary and he doesn’t care, you know, how the company will evolve in the in the next stages. So I would say that the third is the really personal attachment to the company, how they run it. But it’s the most difficult check for us.

Jacob: Wonderful. Yeah, I like that a lot. And the final question then I have for you is a little I was looking at a lot of your LinkedIn content, which you do a wonderful job of putting a lot of content out there about your business and otherwise, just about life and different things in general. A lot of good knowledge will link to your LinkedIn in the show notes. Of course, for people who’d want to follow you or maybe read some of it yourself, but you recently did a post, I think maybe it was like a week ago or so that started with the phrase, In order to win, you need to start with commitment and end with consistency. And I really loved that. Just that phrase and that idea. And so I don’t really have a question around it. So much for you other than just can you explain maybe what you were thinking in that moment? A little bit of the the idea behind that philosophy of in order to win, start with commitment and with consistency, because it just stood out to me as something that I really liked and kind of jotted down. Oh, that’s a that’s a good, good philosophy to have. So any comments or maybe what you were thinking about what that post was about or what that idea means to you?

Mantvydas: Yeah. You know, personally, basically this post was for my team because we were having a difficult week that week and because of the results we had some changes in the teams and so on and so on. And then we were having like an internal team meeting for the C-level managers in the in the CapitalBox. And you know, everyone was really like eager, you know what we will do now? I don’t know whether we will succeed or not. And then then we basically we finalize with this idea that we always start with the commitment that we want to change the finance. Think of the micro and SMEs in the in the Europe. That’s our commitment. You know that we commit that to when we enter this this work for the capital box, for the multitude. But then no one said that it will be so difficult. So that’s why when the consistency comes, you know, if we will have only the commitment so we will enter, we will see that this is very hard, okay? We will drop it out and go elsewhere. But since we have this consistency and we repeat and repeat every day in our work, what we do, what we are here, why, What is the reason to help to support the micro and SME companies that what helps us to move forward to the next level, the next stage, the next country to expand the market, to expand the portfolio and so on.

Mantvydas: That’s the same what they think seeing every day they usually they did. That just strikes for him, for the person, you know, sitting somewhere at the table. Okay. I think that this will be my next work, what I will be doing, the next thing which will be creating. And this is that the commitment and it starts with the commitment, okay, I will do this, but then the person really needs, you know, consistency on what he will doing because it will be really difficult to create. So there will be a lot of barriers, there will be a lot of fight against, you know, in the markets, in the competition and so on. And only with the consistency you can go to the end of your goal. Basically. That was the idea behind it.

Jacob: Yeah, I love that. It struck me then and I love your answer and explanation of it now. That’s really, really wonderful and an awesome place to close it out on. So this has been a real pleasure.

Mantvydas: Thanks, everyone. Happy, Happy to share.

Jacob: Yeah, wonderful. So we’ll end there. We’ll link to both your LinkedIn, company page, everything in the show notes, man. Mantvydas, thank you so much for your time and knowledge. Have greatly enjoyed it and hope to speak again soon. If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more, head on over to SoarPay.com/podcast to subscribe on your podcast listening platform of choice. That’s s.o.a.r.p.a.y Dot com slash podcast.