Modernizing B2B Payments With Virtual Cards – Andrew Jamison

Episode Overview

 Andrew Jamison is a seasoned fintech executive and the Co-Founder & CEO of Extend, a cutting-edge platform transforming how businesses manage and deploy virtual cards. With a career that began at SAP and over a decade of leadership experience at American Express, Andrew brings a unique blend of enterprise strategy and startup agility to the world of B2B payments.

During his tenure at American Express, Andrew gained deep insights into the complexities of corporate finance, customer retention, and the value of trust in payment networks. These lessons became the foundation for Extend a platform purpose-built to modernize payments without disrupting existing banking relationships.

Under Andrew’s leadership, Extend enables businesses to create secure, purpose-driven virtual cards in real time, offering enhanced control, automation, and detailed transaction insights. Rather than replacing banks, Extend works with them layering intuitive user experiences and advanced APIs on top of legacy infrastructure to bring enterprise-grade solutions to companies of all sizes.

Andrew is a passionate advocate for embedded finance, automation, and digital transformation in payments. His vision is to make financial tools smarter, more accessible, and seamlessly integrated into the software businesses already use. With Extend now partnered with major institutions like SAP Concur, Andrew is leading the charge toward a more connected, efficient, and transparent future for business payments.

Episode Transcript

Andrew Jamison: Verticals work incredibly well in your ability to go and lodge against a campaign a specific dollar amount, and so you’re able to then track the performance of those different adverts. And so you’re then able to sort of adjust the levers and say, actually, this one’s working much better. So let’s take funds from this particular campaign and put it on another campaign. And so then as an agency, very easily you can present to your clients saying, here’s the campaigns, here’s what we spent, here’s how they performed. And it happens in real time. And you can actually rebuild the customer in real time.

Kevin Rosenquist: So before launching Extend, you spent over a decade at American Express. What did that experience teach you about the payments industry? That still kind of shapes your thinking today.

Andrew Jamison: So I think I learned a lot of things that actually stretch even beyond just the payments industry as a whole. I think one of the things you learn there is it’s really an excellent leadership formation course, actually, in terms of the types of people it hires and sort of the whole grooming aspect of bringing you through as more of a general management track. Part of that is really sort of making sure you always take a strategic lens, right, in terms of how the industry is shaping the role that different players have in the industry, and a little bit also sort of where people focus. And really from my key takeaway is, clearly service was an important part of anything you deliver that goes and touches customers, right. Amex prides itself on it day in, day out. It also prides itself on the length that you stay at a customer, because it has the whole catchphrase around members since oh yeah, yeah yeah. That talks a huge amount, right? In terms of where they are, what the priority is for them, right? Which is around their customers and retaining those customers. Then I think more broadly around payments. Look, I started my career in SAP, which is sort of broader in terms of, you know, when you think of payments, you think of the whole stack there. And really credit cards have not been part of my journey at all. And so I learned, really, a new thing about cards, the value of cards, and really the power of a network in sort of creating instant trust between a customer and a merchant. And you’ve never met each other. And yet there is instant trust, right? You walk out with the goods and services and really made me think about how that power could be leveraged, right, for the sense of business, more so than in the consumer world that we, that we’re so used to.

Kevin Rosenquist:  Yeah. Do you find that I’ve kind of throughout this podcast talking to people. It’s amazing how when people get into payments they seem to really kind of dig it like it’s weird there’s a lot of people I’m like, well how did you get in this space? They’re like, I sort of fell into it and fell in love with it. I mean, do you find that somewhere in payments and fintech, it just kind of grabs on to you.

Andrew Jamison: I think so because, I mean, payments are so central to our lives. Sure. Right. In one way shape or another. So you can always relate to it, right? It’s sort of like this. You’ve had frustrations on one of their spectra or the other, where that’s from the consumer all the way through to large corporations. And so I think that’s why it grabs people. I think there’s been a lot of innovation around payments in the last 20 years. Uh, and I’d say 20 years because I think it’s true. You know, we focus a lot around sort of the digital credit card of the world. And that’s not new in and of itself. Right. That technology started to appear around the late 90s. Uh, and so here we are talking about virtual cards and the preeminent role they’re playing in 2025 and sort of think, wow, it took 25 years for that idea of a digital card to become really part of everybody’s dialog, whether it’s because I use it to do contactless payments, right? Or I’m using digital credit cards because I have SaaS subscriptions and I want to control how those are operating, but they’re very much sort of becoming prevalent over time. And so I think that’s why also the time is now and we’re seeing lots of change, whether it’s to do with real time payments or other form factors with stablecoin and others. I think that’s why you’re seeing a lot of people really interested in this space right now.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, I think I’ve been doing this podcast for a little over a year, maybe an hour. They had another host before me, so they’ve been around forever, but I jumped on board like a year, year and a half ago. I can’t even believe how much things have changed in that time. Like just in the time that I’ve been doing this podcast. Like, you’re right, the digital tools, like all of the stuff that’s happening within the fintech ecosystem is kind of rapid and it’s, uh, it’s fun.

Andrew Jamison: Yeah. So I look, I think it’s, we’re also seeing, I think for the first time, a bridge between sort of conser and commercial. You know, conser tend to move faster. There’s more legal constraints around it, but there’s less constraints around technology that surrounds it. Right? So if you think of our daily lives, whether you have an Android phone or an Apple phone, it’s kind of increasingly run through that particular device. It gets way more complicated when you get into business, just by virtue of the fact that suddenly you have other considerations, right? In terms of like, well, you know, what ERP do you use? Like what? Why are we talking about that? Right. Like what expense management tool are you using. So and so a lot of people that’s like that’s I they can’t even wrap their head around that. So that’s why I think we’ve seen slower progress in the B2B or the commercial landscape, just because the considerations are so much bigger.

Kevin Rosenquist: I just read today that OpenAI.

Kevin Rosenquist: Is partnering with another company about doing a screenless cell phone, an actual phone that has no screen on it. So I don’t know. That’s all I really know about it. But so who knows what’s coming next, right?

Andrew Jamison: So, so it’s interesting you say that, but I was just talking to Matt Burton, who was at QED, and before that ran a couple of startups himself, and he was saying he sort of now gotten himself in a conversation where AI is looking to rewrite the whole ERP. And I was like, why is that a really important thing? Well, all these AI companies want to be the first $100 million revenue company, right, with five full time employees. So how do you do that? Well, you can’t afford to have a finance function. You can’t afford to have any of these other functions. So I think everyone’s starting to really start to think about actually, there’s a lot of things that can be automated. And if you keep your mind around automation and efficiency, right. There’s a lot happening in that space. And obviously I play a tremendous role there.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah no doubt. All right. So let’s talk about uh let’s talk about extend. So talk. Tell me why are virtual cards becoming such a powerful tool in the B2B payments space? What problem are they solving?

Andrew Jamison: So I think everyone’s starting to understand that they deliver a lot of sort of control. They deliver great insights. And I’ll talk about each and every one of those in just a second. And those things are sort of being prized today in business control. Why? Because to give you an example, when we start thinking about all the different subscriptions that we have, right. If I look at my indirect expenses as a company, and in fact, I was just part of a recent emerging middle market survey. And the idea is that outside of salaries and rent, you can actually pay two thirds or 63% of your indirect expenses on a card. And I was like, that doesn’t feel right. So what I do, I reach straight out to our CFO and said, what do we spend on card? I mean, I know we’re a bit of an exception, but I bet you it’s nowhere near that. I guess Andrew, it’s 68%.

Kevin Rosenquist: I was like, wow.

Andrew Jamison: Okay. Well, so tech forward company because we’re in the fintech space. But you know AWS we pay for that on on central on a card. You think of Slack and Jira and all these other tools that we use to develop software that all goes on virtual cards. And so what you want to be able to do, though, is to manage and control how much you get charged. Right. You don’t want to be overcharged for your subscriptions, right? We see that sort of happening in our consumer lives, and obviously it happens in our business lives. But it’s bigger, right?

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. The dollar amounts are bigger. Yeah yeah.

Andrew Jamison: And so you want to control different things. I also think like you know technology is now embedded in so many different business processes. Right. You think about a company that is building software to really help you minimize your shipping costs. Right. You might be a retailer like Lululemon or any of those big brands, and you might be shipping your goods from your warehouse to a retail location, 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 somewhere around the country. And so the software is sort of figuring out what’s the cheapest or is it USPS? Is it Fedex? What is the best way to get it from point A to point B? And when it finds the right price, it essentially goes and uses a virtual card to pay for it. And you say, well, why? Well, the virtual card, one of the biggest assets it has, comes with a ton of data associated with it because you created it for a purpose and that purpose lives with it. And in this case, it would be, well, it was for this client Lululemon, right? It was for point A to point B. So I can also tell the customer what this was actually for and they can reconcile it. So it really helps with reconciling. And it also in some instances helps to rebuild for those services that were rendered. So it has amazing enriched information that you don’t get if it’s a singular account number that you use for everything. And that’s why we’re starting to see virtual cards, because they’re either embedded in business processes or they’re controlling upfront what I’m actually going to get hit with come day end, week end, month end, whatever, whatever the cadence is for those charges.

Kevin Rosenquist: Interesting. So can you walk us through how extend acts as a layer on top of existing infrastructure? Because you don’t issue cards. Do you partner with banks?

Andrew Jamison: No. Absolutely right. So we had to make that decision. That’s the first decision we made was like, do we want to go and issue cards. And obviously you got to be on top of money movement and KYC and all these different things. , and I was like, no, that’s actually not the part of the business I’m interested in, because there’s a lot of players in that space already. And so we were just interested in saying, okay, if I look at existing bank technology, it’s not modern, right? In the same way as when I worked at SAP, you know, that stack is old. And so it was all about how you sort of bring modern experiences, modern workflows. Over the top of that, you keep the ledger because the ledgers are ledgers, like an abacus, right? Live forever. , and so for us, it was like, okay, let’s simply think our way around the problem in a different way, which is let’s assume that the ledge is not going to move right. It’s a kind of a career limiting move, frankly, for anyone to go and do a ledger replacement. And we said, okay, if we can break through, right. The original glass ceiling of, you know what, we don’t expose our data. Anyone which Psd2 had sort of helped to break down my data. And therefore banks had to be able to provide data to third parties. And so that’s broken down. We’ve also broken away from EDI and we’ve moved over towards API. So it’s all happening in real time. It’s not a batch process anymore. Everything’s happening in real time.

Andrew Jamison: So having figured out that we could go and partner with a strategic vendors of these really big banks, and by that I mean the card processors, like the theses, the FIS, it’s not as well preserved as well, because then start thinking about who had all the other technology pieces, the card networks, who were dealing in these digital credit cards. And we started to say, okay, well, wouldn’t it be powerful if I could walk up to anybody in a small business or midsize business and say, this technology that was built 25 years ago that was only designed for like the GIS of this world, really big mega companies can now be accessible to anyone, and we will do it over the top of your existing credit cards. So in other words, your access right is do you have a card with that issuer? And if the answer is yes, that’s fine. You don’t need a new contract. You don’t need anything. In fact, you can just access these digital capabilities of issuing digital credit cards within less than five minutes. And so that was the thinking behind it is how I could truly think about access. And that’s about onboarding and activation. Right. And remove all of that friction. Then there was no need to have a new bank partner or relationship, right? I had an existing one through which I do all sorts of other things beyond just card payments potentially. And so how do we make that a reality? And that’s that’s the journey that we went on uh, in launching extend.

Kevin Rosenquist: Interesting. And you brought up the legacy systems and the old tech stacks and stuff like that. What are some of the biggest pain points you see in traditional corporate card systems, and how are you helping to modernize that? I mean, you were doing it without a whole tech over overhaul. So that’s good that you can build on top of that. How are you? How are you helping that, in that space? And also if you could speak to what the pain points are from the traditional card systems.

Andrew Jamison: Yeah. So so so number one. Right. A lot of these are green screens right. So we’re talking like you know mainframes, they’re not sort of three tier architecture systems. They are truly sort of mainframes. And yes they’re all moving to the cloud. But that movement of the cloud is a journey. And it’s like a 20 year journey if you sort of think of it from start to finish. And so for us it’s about okay, but great. How do we enable things piecemeal in between that allow the end customer experience to look a little bit different? And so one of the key things we did was essentially have access to little data streams from multiple providers. So the first thing we did was to say I need to pull different data sources from different places. And today those platforms don’t even talk to each other. And then if I have access to those, I can then build an intelligent piece of middleware over the top of it, where I start adding in things. So for instance, I can say this card’s active now, but it’s not active. In five seconds from now, I can start to overlay other controls in terms of whether you can go to this merchant or not. And that’s really how we thought about it, like, can I pull in all these different services and can I marry up how I use these APIs to send instructions to different parts of the systems in real time. And that’s really how you started to build a much more sophisticated solution and a much more intuitive user interface over the top of it. So many things hamper the banks, not just the technology stack, but actually their budgeting process works against them too, in a traditional environment.

Andrew Jamison: You start really looking around June July for what you are going to invest in next year? If your year end is December 31st and you go through the whole summer, and then you go through a decision process in the fall, it kind of gets decided by that sort of November time frame and you’re all ready to go. January 1st and January 1st, you get the money and off you go. , and the reality is, like projects move much, much more quickly in a startup. And so the whole point of this is MVPs and test and learn and pivot and, and there’s nothing wrong with shifting that strategy. But if you want to shift the strategy inside of a big company, you’ve got to go in front of a whole approval committee. And by the way, some of them don’t even work in that space, but they still have oversight to this. So the process works against you, right? The allocation of funding works against you. But the reality is all of these institutions have more money than any fintechs could ever shake a stick at. But it’s really about the allocation process. And then the talent that you’re able to bring in is also different, because if you’re not able to move on these projects and do these kind of exciting projects that move at real speed, you can’t also bring in the type of talent you need today from either a mobile side or from a website, and sometimes even from a database side, because you’re still having to look back over your shoulder at the mainframe.

Kevin Rosenquist: So what are the best use cases for virtual cards? What kind of businesses or teams have the most to gain from this technology?

Andrew Jamison: Yeah, so certainly a lot of digitally native companies have a lot to gain from this. But the spectrum is broad actually, in the same way as using a physical card. It can be used across a concern in a really large big company. But let me give you some really distinct use cases, uh, around this. Right. You might be a digital advertising firm and you might be running campaigns. In fact, you might be running multiple campaigns for a given customer. But then obviously it multiplies out when you start adding in the fact you’re maybe doing it for 100 customers and you’ve got an approved budget for a given company, a given campaign. And so you need to manage that budget right across the different media through which you’re going to go and present these different adverts. And so virtual cards work incredibly well in your ability to go and lodge against a campaign, a specific dollar amount. And so you’re able to then track the performance of those different, uh, adverts. And so you’re then able to also adjust the levers and say, actually, this one’s working much better. So let’s take funds from this particular campaign and put it on another campaign. And so then as an agency, very easily you can present to your clients saying, here’s the campaigns, here’s what we spent, here’s how they performed. And it happens in real time. And you can actually rebuild the customer in real time. And so that problem is also true of many other industries like law firms.

Andrew Jamison: They have different court filings that they have to pay for. But again then you’ve got to then remember what that filing was for, which customer is for you then need to go and rebuild that customer. So again, that sort of part of data that flows with the virtual cards is key. And then you go into a whole different segment of businesses, which is imagine you have a franchise type business and you have multiple locations because maybe you run gyms, right? Or maybe you run restaurants. And so again, how do you allocate an account to every one of those locations? So when you incur expenses, you know instantly right where there’s expenses were going. And again, it’s all about closing your books quicker at the end. Right. So those are sort of some very easy ones I think are really generic ones. The ones. The ones we talked about, you know, subscriptions increasingly businesses. And it’s almost like Covid accelerated this whole sort of SaaS model of everyone working remotely and using different digital tools. And so now so much of everyone’s lives centers around these subscriptions. So how do you measure and control those that are not getting out of hand? How do you make sure that you know when you have enough usage and capacity, you can negotiate a better rate than with your providers? Say, no, no, no, actually, not just me. I have 52 other hundred. I have 500 people in my organization using this. So now I need to be brought into a different pricing tier.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, that’s an interesting point because even even me as a solopreneur like I have, I can’t even believe, like I look at my, you know, my, my, my accounting and I’m just like, Mike, I give a lot of subscriptions, but like, I use them like I definitely use them all. But to your point, yeah, Covid definitely changed the game on that one. Or at least accelerated the dependency on SaaS products.

Andrew Jamison: Yeah. And so I think that’s nothing. You know, with Covid also, you couldn’t go into the office for the best part of a year. When we think about payments, originally, we thought a lot of it was going to be linked to travel. And guess what? No one was traveling.

Kevin Rosenquist: Oh yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Jamison: Actually unearthed was there was a much bigger problem in that sort of indirect payments. Right. All of the spend that doesn’t necessarily go into building a product or delivering a service, but actually you used to run a company. And so again, suddenly it was, okay, we need to make sure that we can give people access in real time. So again, digital cards are great because it doesn’t go to a printer and then it gets mailed to, you know, you receive it in an instant. , and then again, Covid made this shift in the US. It already happened in other parts of the world, but but really, contactless had absolutely no foothold in the US and for the longest period of time. And yeah, you traveled to Sweden and had family over there and I never you didn’t take out my wallet in two weeks because everything was contactless and was like, oh, this is where this is going. But it’s almost like the US needed its own catalyst. And I think Qantas sales tend to change around seven years, but it really needed something to push those suppliers into doing something. Guess what? Covid, with not wanting to touch anything was a great way to say great. We don’t have to touch money. We can now install these point of sale solutions that allow for contactless and suddenly contactless took off across the US. Really like wildfire. And now here you go to a restaurant and most of the time you’re being presented with a terminal, which is the experience you would have if you went to Europe or Asia and into other markets. And so now it’s real. And so we are entering a very different digital era. , for us, uh, here as well.

Kevin Rosenquist: You know, I’ve talked to other people about that too, about the, the, you know, how the US was behind on contactless payments, real time payments, things like that. Why do you think that the US, especially being such an obviously ominous player in the world, why are Ah. Why is this country behind in those areas, do you think?

Andrew Jamison: Look, I. And you wouldn’t typically find me really thinking about this, but. But I’ve thought about it. This very, very same question. And the only thing I could wrap my head around was interesting enough. It’s about regulation, right? I think it’s also linked to the fact that the US operates as 50 countries, also known as states. Right? And that’s.

Kevin Rosenquist: Very true.

Andrew Jamison: Well, you know, and everything’s regulated at state level. Right. And there’s this whole movement of like, I don’t want it to be done federally. Well, sometimes when it comes to these big initiatives around payments, the federal helps. Right. And so I remember in the UK, they basically said we want to get rid of checks. And it was a mandate. And so checks went away. Right. And so here it’s been a very different process. And it’s rooted in America when you think of this there’s 700 odd thousand in financial institutions. I fly into a new city and I’m like, I have never heard of this bank?

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, I hear you. Especially you get all the credit unions and all the small banks and stuff. Stuff like that. yeah.

Andrew Jamison: And so. And so you realize it’s meaningful, right? It’s true. It is driven by personal relationships. And it’s hard to try that. And so that’s the reality is, these relationships are really powerful and really meaningful. If they weren’t we would have already sort of collapsed all of this into like most other countries when it’s like, you know, five leading banks and corporate America is massive compared to. So let’s say there’s 20 of them, but there’s not 7000 of them. And so I think that’s part and parcel of why this, this also hasn’t sort of gone quite as quickly. I think it was truly through the mechanism of what happened around, around Covid, that sort of prompted everyone as a sort of urgent thing to sort of move forwards with how we were paying because people didn’t want to touch things.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yep. What do you feel is the next evolution of B2B payments on the horizon, and how do you feel that virtual cards fit into that?

Andrew Jamison: So look, I still feel that we live, , very much in sort of different silos at the moment of experiences. And so we’re all sort of busy building, right, different solutions to make payments more efficient. But the real challenge for me is it’s still not embedded in the way that we see it in the consumer world. Right. The cliche here is, you know, when I order a car service, I don’t think about payment. I mean, obviously I see the payment amount, but I’m really ordering my car service. And I get in the car and I get out of the car. Right. And you contrast that with the experience you had before you got in the car, and you sort of had to make sure you gave him cash or a credit card, and it was all clay and whatever else it is. And so they changed it, right? It became an embedded feature. And it’s a cliché because it’s one that people refer to. But like all good cliches, it kind of has a lot of truth stacked behind it.

Kevin Rosenquist: Absolutely.

Andrew Jamison: , and you start thinking, okay, but why is that? And you say, well, you know, what goes back to how we run our lives through a device these days. And so anything that can be done through that one device becomes simple. And to be fair, that opened up the infrastructure. Right. I’m not going to talk about how much of it then gets paid to the provider of those handsets. But the reality is they were created almost like an open container that you could then throw these apps in. And so then people could go and develop things. And so things move really quickly. And it all became part and parcel of your life, as I alluded to, sort of at the top of the call. Unfortunately, business is different. If I’m a small business and likely on an Intuit platform, a QuickBooks platform for my accounting, I’m probably using Excel for doing expenses, right. If I’m a large business, I’m either using Oracle Financials or I’m using workday. I’m using SAP and and and then for expense I have a whole different solution for procurement. I have a whole different solution for managing. And so it rapidly becomes highly complicated. And so I do believe the next frontier is embedding. And I think that’s why we’re seeing so much attention being poured towards one is APIs.

Andrew Jamison: And the maturity of those. Right. As I mentioned, digital cards are not new. They’re 25 year olds. 25 year old APIs are the same. They’re actually new in the grand scheme of things compared to what EDI was. They’re still pretty new, and I think we’re starting to see them really being leveraged in a way now that makes embedding things much more, much simpler. And so that’s one of the key aspects I think we’re going to see here is that. And then I think we’ll continue to focus on automation in terms of insights. And that’s where AI is interesting, because it’s kind of doing a lot of the work that a finance person would want, you would want to do when they come into the office. But I’ll deliver it straight to your desk. I think the agentic side of things is on the agenda, but not now. And the reason for that is until we have total oversight into, you know, the agent making a payment on your behalf. Even today, we don’t let someone typically make a payment unless you have other AIS looking at that payment before it goes out the door. Right. The four AIS of two people need to validate something before it goes. So you know you want an agent doing this even less, right? Because like, if you just decided to go and do all these different things, but you really didn’t have the right control parameters.

Andrew Jamison: So I think we’ll see a lot of work happening in terms of really helping with insights and segmentation of the market. And all those different things will happen really fast. , and then from our perspective, we think that virtual cards will become part of every platform that you see today. It’ll just be another modality of payment in the same way as you could pay with a check or pay through a Y or pay through an ACH. You know, virtual cards would be another option, and obviously they’re more powerful than just paying on the same card for the same reason. You’re going to be paying a very specific invoice amount, and that’s all that the supplier can charge. And so you’re not then sort of caught between sort of having to reclaim, right, a credit on something that they overcharged for. And so you actually get things right first time versus having to then go through a credit process. So I think that’s why I’m really excited. And we launched a partnership actually with SAP concur Invoice specifically focused on that. And the interesting part of that embedding piece is it means extend is no longer visible in that journey, and neither do we need to be visible.

Kevin Rosenquist: Right, right. Yeah.

Andrew Jamison: We are just the software that is routing a request down to the right bank. And then we’re saying put these controls and then boom, we pull the next digital card from their stack and we deliver it back through the software to the supplier. But really in that journey as a customer, I logged in and I registered my card and we authenticated it. And then I decided to pay a supplier and boom, boom, it all happens within that application. Like we just don’t need to be visible.

Kevin Rosenquist: That’s true. You guys don’t really need to be visible. You’re kind of just. Yeah, you’re like the bridge. You’re on that bridge to make that happen. You know, in the back end. Yeah.

Andrew Jamison: Yeah, yeah. I think we’ll see more of that because let’s face it, I think we’re seeing it a little bit in the consumer world. How many apps do you really want. Right. If you want less, not more. And I think it’s true in this context. Like I just, you know, there’s too much change. Management has to happen when you roll out yet another solution. And the bigger the company, the harder it is. And I think that’s where we’re going to see a lot of work happening there, because we all are desperate in our daily lives to essentially have things operate from where we already operate.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. And to your point, earlier, like I’m a one man show. Like I said, but I even get confused with what all the different tools that I use, you know. So yeah, you’re right. Like, like getting all that stuff sorted. And I have way too many apps on my phone every once in a while, while I’m watching a game or something. I sit down and start deleting stuff because I know I need to get rid of it because I was trying something or whatever, or my son wanted something. But like, yeah, we need to like, get more streamlined. I feel like we got amazing tools out there, especially with all this new AI stuff that is so fun and so cool. But now I feel like I have way too much stuff going on and it throws off my balance.

Andrew Jamison: Yeah, look it does. And I laughed when you said like, you know, my son wants something else. I must have like three quarters of my apps on my phone must be related to one of my two kids.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah.

Andrew Jamison: And then I’m like, so where’s this app? Because it was right on the front page, and now it’s sort of like on the fifth page.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. They’re taking over our phones. Can’t we have anything to ourselves anymore? Are you?

Andrew Jamison: Oh no. Absolutely not.

Andrew Jamison: But I think that’s why. That’s why we’re entering this, this really interesting world. Because I think we’re going back to efficiency is the order of the day. I do think that APIs and AI and agents and all these things are all driving us down this path. Doing the busy work. Right. That, frankly, all of us, none of us really want to do. We kind of want to do the layup after the busy work, right? We want to be the GM, which is not like the go and do all of this like, no, I want to see the first output so I can actually then overlay an opinion or get an insight that will drive something a little bit more strategic.

Kevin Rosenquist: Absolutely. Yeah. All right. Well Andrew Jamison the company is extend. Thanks so much for your time. That was really a really great conversation. I appreciate you being here.

Andrew Jamison: No, thanks very much for being on the show Kevin. Really enjoyed the conversation.